Hail to the Chief

SLJ: What kind of research did you do for this book?

St. George: I ended up doing quite a bit of research [even though] I knew a lot of this stuff. For instance, talking about what McKinley had to wear. I mean, I already had done research on McKinley for the assassination book [In the Line of Fire, Holiday House, 1999]. I got [out] my old notes, which I never throw away. The attic is straining under the load. I went through a lot of old notes, and I used this book on [presidential] statistics.

One thing that surprised me was that there were eight Presidents who were born in a log cabin. I mean I thought of maybe Jackson and Lincoln. So I certainly didn't know every single thing I have in this book. I also got a book about music and dancing. I knew about Woodrow Wilson. It surprised me that he liked to do the jig and [sing] silly ditties. He always seemed so serious. He was quite a ladies' man. A lot of these Presidents come across [in public] as being totally different from what they really are [in private]. And Wilson is certainly a perfect example of that. I also used William Seale's book [The President's House, Harry N. Abrams, 1992], two volumes on the White House, which was really good.

SLJ: David, how about you?

Small: I, of course, had tons of photos. I had to go to the library six or seven times to find pictures on some of these guys. Generally, what I had to work from was the official portrait. And, especially, the earlier you go back, that's all there is--the official paintings, which are always rather stiff and formal looking. But even then, I would try to draw them from a different angle so that I wasn't always doing what the presidential portraits do, which is angle them to a side for a three-quarters profile, looking very stately. But I certainly had to do research. I had to dig up photos of the White House. I wanted it from a lot of different angles. I had to know what [the city of] Washington looked like in the time of Monroe, because it's shown in the background there, what the buildings would have been like. And costumes, of course, and musical instruments, and military outfits. The research was just sort of endless, but fun.

Small: I did worry a lot about what the presidential bowling alley looked like. I couldn't find any photographs of it. I really did want it to be accurate. But I finally just made it look like a plain, old bowling alley with those horrible, high-beam rafter things, and I just draped them with bunting. Talking about research, I was going to say the book also gave me an opportunity to use an interior that the book didn't necessarily call for. I have wanted for years to draw a little Baroque theater. And the "Presidential Beauty Contest" spread gave me the opportunity to draw the interior of this charming little theater with the audience and the orchestra there and the runway. That's my favorite spread in the book, actually. [See illustration, above.]

Small: There's Warren Harding going out on the runway and accepting the applause of the crowd, dressed in his ermine and crinoline, while all the losers stand on stage.

SLJ: You show Lincoln, a great President but a homely man, as one of the losers. Of course, Harding, who was very handsome, was one of our worst Presidents. The accompanying text reads: "Don't worry about your looks." Is that still the case in presidential politics, Judy? Or has a candidate's appearance become much more important?

St. George: Hmmm, I hadn't thought in those terms. Well, of course, with television...how long have we had television for presidential [debates]? 1960? It started with Nixon and Kennedy. And look at Kennedy, I mean, he was so gorgeous. Could William Howard Taft ever be elected [today]? I mean, this obese man.

Small: My opinion is that, sadly, appearance does matter very much nowadays. We've got one candidate this year who looks like Superman and another who's very good looking, too. I just can't help but think that in our TV culture and our visual culture, that those sort of handsome looks stand for the virtues nowadays: valor, courage, fortitude, blah blah blah.

SLJ: Did your perceptions of the Presidents change as a result of doing this book?

St. George: Yes. I find I respect most of them a lot more than I had. Because what we usually get is negatives on Presidents. And starting with George Washington, I mean, he really got it, too. There isn't one that has survived without really getting [criticized]. And in those days, I mean, Thomas Jefferson--they got it much worse than what we hand out now. A lot of stuff I'd read about the Presidents has been mostly negative. And so as I did this research, I thought, hey, most of these guys really tried to do their best. Some of them weren't even capable of leading. Some failed, totally. Look at Truman. When he was President, he was vilified. Now what is he? He's considered one of our better Presidents. So history changes opinions.

Small: And [Lyndon] Johnson, too. It surprised me how my attitude about him changed in the course of reading.

St. George: Well, of course, you were a '60s child, you were totally negative on Johnson, I'm sure.

Small: Absolutely, we were in doubt that he had not had his hands in the assassination of Kennedy for a while. That vicious rumor, I don't think there's a shred of truth in it, is there really?

St. George: Well, I forgave him, I voted for him because, remember, [Barry] Goldwater was saying [that if elected President] he was going to bomb North Vietnam or use the atomic bomb. I thought, I'm certainly not going to vote for him. So I voted for Johnson, not particularly liking him.

Small: The more I read about Teddy Roosevelt, the more I came to like him. I would say I'm an even greater fan of George Washington since this book. And part of that for me is, I've been to his home, I did research for another book at Mount Vernon and was invited down there to sign that book--and I'm going to be signing this book at Mount Vernon in the fall. You know, when you've been in the guy's house and seen the way he lived, you get an even deeper respect for him. But that was all pretty well established even before this book came along. My attitude toward Truman also changed while I was doing this book. I feel there was so much more to him as a President and as a man [than I had thought].

Originally, Judy had the [book's] closing quote [come from Truman rather than Lincoln]. Well, maybe it was a toss-up.

SLJ: The quote of Lincoln's that was used says, "I know very well that many others might in this matter as in others, do better than I can. Butâ?¦ I am here. I must do the best I can, and bear the responsibility of taking the course which I feel I ought to take." What was the quote from Truman that was discarded?

Small: [It] was a real heartbreaker. It was in a letter to his daughter, if I'm not mistaken. He said, in effect, you're going to hear a lot about me and not all of it's going to be very good. But I want you to know that I did my very best, and I really tried to stick to that. And it's said in such simple, straightforward language. Judy, why did you decide not to use that one?

St. George: [My editor] Patti [Gauch] and I went back and forth on that one. I wanted the Truman quote, to tell you the truth. Because Lincoln had been [featured prominently] in [the book]. The picture of him at the Lincoln Memorial had a terrific impact. And I felt the same way about Truman. You know, this was tell-it-like-it-is Truman. I was very anxious to use that quote. We went back and forth on that, I'd say, more than almost anything in the book. I won't say I would have preferred [the Truman quote], but as David told you, it's a great quote.

SLJ: What lasting impression of the presidency do you hope kids will have after reading your book?

St. George: I would like them to say, "Hey, these guys are like Dad or my teacher or whatever. They're human people. They're not gods set up on Olympus." I think part of the reason I wrote [this book] was for that reason, because I tried to make the Presidents human. I'd also like kids to think that most of these men did the best that they could. And some failed, and some succeeded. And I'd like them to think about what does make a good President: doing what's right, being honest, all the things that Nixon and Clinton haven't been. So I gave negative examples, and I hope I gave some positive examples. And [perhaps] kids will think, "Hey, maybe I can do this."

When I was growing up, parents would say to their boys--of course, never to the girls--"You could be President, you could grow up to be President, anyone can be President." After I wrote this book, I realized anyone could be President and anyone was President. [Laughter]